No, not intense downpours of gunge; I’m referring to file sharing. Over the couple of years that this site/blog has been running, I’ve come to realise that it has two big disadvantages: 1, the lack of forum-style discussion, and 2, the lack of any means for people to share video clips, without having to resort to third-party hosting.
As most of you are aware, my main means of posting video content to the site has been through various YouTube aliases. YouTube’s ‘unlisted’ option has been a godsend, but even this is no help against automated copyright filtering, which is becoming more and more common. As for videos posted by other accounts, the average lifetime seems to be a small number of weeks, if not days. The number of dead links on here is ridiculous.
There was great excitement at the appearance of WamTube about half a year ago – the first free, real-time WAM clip-sharing site since the WamMonkey vidshare. Sadly, it was all over far too quickly, purportedly because the storage and bandwidth exceeded what the owner was willing to pay.
I began thinking about ways round this problem, and the thought came to me – why not a Torrent site? For those unfamiliar with the term, BitTorrent is the world’s most popular peer2peer protocol. 40-70% (depending on location) of the world’s internet traffic is BitTorrent, and at any given moment, more people are ‘using’ the service than FaceBook and Twitter combined (I put the inverted comments because one doesn’t actually have to be sitting at the computer to use it).
Many of the TV shows I post on the site came into my possession via Torrent distribution. Wipeout, Killer Karaoke, AKBingo!, Idoling!!!, Coronation Street – all Torrents. You can peruse some of the sites I use under “mainstream sources” on the righthand bar.
The advantage is that there is no need to maintain the files on an expensive, vulnerable central server, because the users provide that service themselves. When you receive a copy of a file via BitTorrent, it comes from those who already have it. Every download is someone else’s upload. This means that once there are a lot of people all ‘seeding’ the file, the download speeds will be very fast. Another advantage is that if your connection is disrupted during download, you can pick up again from where you left off. And there are no captchas to enter, no annoying countdowns before you can download, no paywalls, and no copyright filters. Peer2peer is the ultimate in community self-reliance and freedom – a middle finger to corporations and governments alike.
So it got me wondering, why has there never been a WAM clip Torrent site? Are wammers less computer-literate than other online communities? Well let’s find out. Below is a link to a torrent of the Ann-Margret scene from Tommy (it took me less than two minutes to create).
TGTommy.avi – 178Mb
In the beginning, the download speed will be slow, because there’ll only be my computer uploading, and if you happen to try while I’m switched off then you won’t get anything. But, as more people complete their download, and provided they are good neighbours who seed what they have downloaded, speeds should pick up.
If this works out then it could be the first entry in a huge global library of WAM.
Update:
Well, plenty of people have had their say and we’ve heard a variety of opinions. After sleeping on the issue, I want to take a more conciliatory tone on this. I stand by the principles of what I said, but I realise I that in places I expressed myself in an sniping or immature way, so I apologise for that. As I’m sure I’ve made clear, I disagree with certain aspects of the law, but at present time it is the law and I have to recognise that.
So to be clear: The intention is to use Torrents to share WAM clips from mainstream sources such as TV shows and films (or indeed any original content that the producer wants to share). It is my impression that this has long been uncontroversial in the WAM community (hell, some people even make money from distributing these clips). It is my hope that this will improve the longevity of this site’s clip collection by getting round the problem of clips disappearing (for a variety of reasons) from streaming sites. It is also intended to encourage wider participation by providing a means for people with clips stashed away on their computers to share them.
To WAM producers: Your works have never been shared on this site, and that is not about to change. You have my word: any clips currently available for sale from WAM producers will not be posted here. Equally, however, you cannot tell us what we can and can’t do beyond that.
Anyway, here is the link where the torrents will appear:
You answered your own question – the problem is that you need people constantly seeding. In a very small community, torrents aren’t feasible for that reason imo.
As a producer, I’m really glad there are no wam torrent sites.
We would be ripped of really badly and go out of business really quickly as would everyone else in this business.
Unfortunately we live in a world where people think they should get everything for nothing.
So sorry, hate the idea!!!
Please stop.
Shouldn’t be surprised really. Hollywood went to court to try to outlaw the VCR. The music industry freaked out over the mp3… and the twin tape deck… and radio… and the gramophone… and the player-piano…
And as for those poor scribes who were put out of work by the printing press…
So Leon, you’re saying that the rest of the WAM community should desist from using efficient technological means to distribute any file – any file at all, not necessarily one that you had anything to do with – to protect your ‘right’ to make a living using whichever business model you choose?
I agree. No one said anything about putting producers material on torrents, just clips from tv and other sources, so this is a good idea.
The only problem is it isn’t the best time right now. The six strikes copyright law just went into effect for a lot of the major ISP companies in the US, so anyone using torrents should be extra careful.
Don’t clips from tv and other sources have producers of their own? I’m just playing devil’s advocate; I’m sure fair use comes into play here. At least you’re not looking to make a profit from other people’s copyrighted material like some WAM figures.
My problem with a torrent is that, let’s face it, the overwhelming majority of non-WAM-Producer WAM material is crap. And I don’t really want to waste time downloading a file and playing it on my own media player to find out it’s crap. That’s what makes streaming sites so wonderful: you can instantly play the video. If you like it, save it. If you don’t, at least you don’t have to delete anything.
And re: TG’s comment, I trust that if a WAM producer’s content does find its way on this hypothetical torrent you’ll find a way to stop it, right? Because that is going to happen eventually. That’s a fact. And your “business model” defense is going to look awfully weak when it does.
I am going to seed, not because i like the clip, just the idea.
I would also like to say that with my financial situation how it is at the moment i can not justify spending money on porn or wam clips. I understand that these things cost producers money, but if i take advantage of something that someone makes available for free, regardless of the morality involved the producer is not losing any money, as i would never spend any money in the first place.
And so it begins…
There used to be a time not that long ago when we had a general understanding that if you wanted something but didn’t want to pay for it, you would accept going without it. Those who circumvented that understanding were called out for what they were.
Now? We’ll preform any kind of mental gymnastics we can because we don’t even have the courage to call ourselves selfish. And that is why a WAM torrent, even started with the best intentions possible, is a really bad idea.
I disagree. There was a time not that long ago when music, film, TV, books and games cost a lot of money to physically create, distribute and store. With the digital age that is no longer the case, and yet we are still expected to pay the same amount of money.
The internet, and torrents specifically is the greatest information distribution tool the human race has ever seen. The fact that corporations can’t recognise and monetise them makes them shitty businesses, not the seeders thieves.
In the specific case of WAM producers, well, torrents and WAM clips have both been around for a while, is there an epidemic of file sharing WAM clips? As has already been mentioned this is a relatively small community, and thus self policing is a lot easier.
Furthermore, the effects on producers will be more immediate and obvious. I imagine it wouldn’t take long for Leon or Messy Jessie or Messy Mayhem to say ‘Fuck you- no more clips’ if they thought file sharing was undermining them significantly, and thus there is a real incentive on everyone who seeds to ensure there’s no producer clips.
Sorry for the wall of text.
I’m sorry, I’m just trying to figure out when people who create and produce content lost their right to decide what becomes of it. You don’t get to decide if it’s a big enough problem. You don’t get to decide if they make enough money off it already. It’s the producer’s choice. Always has been. If Leon decides to makes his clips $1 million each then guess what? You have to pay him $1 million to see it or else you’re a thief.
At least have the integrity to admit that. Don’t use the internet as an excuse. There are means out there to acquire those clips with the producer’s permission. If you circumvent them it’s because you wanted to, not because the internet made it so tempting.
Firstly, I’ve never pirated a producer clip, as I’ve always felt the prices they charge are fair.
Secondly save your wobbly-lipped indignation. It’s more than possible to make money despite (or even through) file-sharing. You can ignore that fact, stick your fingers in your ears and shout ‘thief!’ and you’ll go out of business. I’m not offering some defence of pirating or copyright infringement, merely making the observation that blaming the medium doesn’t make it go away.
I’m not accusing you of anything. And I know producers are making money despite file-sharing. I’m just maintaining that it’s not our place to decide if they make enough money or whether people circumventing their business is a big enough hindrance.
I know torrents aren’t going to go away. But we don’t have to legitimize them by pretending they don’t have some effect–however slight–on the rightful copyright holder.
Due to the nature of torrents requiring a large demand to work properly, direct download from file hosts works much better for wam anyway.
I have to disagree with your premise. It costs a lot of money to produce, distribute and store this content. Models cost money, sometimes ALOT of money. Materials costs add up quickly. Then you need cameras, and editing software and a computer than can handle video editing. Then once you have the clip you need to host it. That can get EXTREMELY expensive. Ask a producer how much it costs them just to run a website and I bet you will be shocked at how expensive it is. They have to host all the clips, some of which run near a gig, plus pay for all the bandwidth they are using, which is another huge fee. These costs quickly add up, and you can see why they don’t want their clips stolen and shared.
Torrents and filesharing hurt small producers more. I don’t care about downloading a TV show, because A) I pay for cable and B) I’m probably torrenting it because my DVR screwed up C) they are making millions anyway. File sharing didn’t bankrupt the music or movie industry. But it could ruin small producers who sometimes don’t even see a profit, and just make clips because they enjoy it.
The hosting, bandwidth etc are the distribution costs, and the producer chooses to bear those alone by claiming a monopoly on distribution…
You can’t possibly be serious. What other feasible way is there to distribute videos to fans over the internet that costs less than the conventional methods virtually every producer in WAM history has chosen?
(hint: “Give it away as a torrent for free” is not an acceptable answer.)
It isn’t my job to provide you with a business solution, but perhaps you should take a look at this lady, or this guy, or these musicians, or these software companies.
I’m sorry, you were just so quick to criticize the way producers do business that I thought you had some solutions at the ready. You’ve linked people who depended on word of mouth (the WAM community is so small and defined that word of mouth is useless), hosts ebooks (which is significantly easier than than a library of often HD videos), use their primary product to sell something else (exactly what else does a WAM producer have to sell besides a WAM video?), and, once again, back to just “give it away for free.” Not to mention the extra dimension of complication that comes with peddling adult material. All feasible solutions, indeed.
The bottom line is simple (and already perfectly articulated by billis820): things cost money. Producers have come up with a pretty decent way to distribute their work and recoup at least some of their costs. The response here: “Make your costs 0 so we don’t have to pay for it. Figure out how to do it yourself. I’m just an idea guy.”
I didn’t criticise how WAM producers do business. I said it is up to them to find a business model that works, is compatible with how contemporary society operates, and doesn’t impinge upon the rights of others to conduct their own business. I’ve had you and Leon telling me that I mustn’t set up torrents sharing WAM clips – not his WAM clips, but any WAM clips, such as the TV clips that this blog has focused on since its inception. It’s an excellent example of how copyright protectionists seek to control far more than their own content. Well sorry, but I’m not going to desist from using MY computer and MY internet connection as I please, simply because a producer is worried that one of their clips might in principle be shared.
Also, it’s interesting you mention the fact that this is adult material, because copyright was actually set up “to promote the sciences and useful arts”, not “to allow pornographers to make a buck”.
Bottom line, I don’t care whether these things cost one dollar or a million dollars to film. There is no right to a guaranteed return on that expenditure, and the rest of the world isn’t going to stand still in order for that return to be realised.
Well despite what copyright law was originally set up for, pornographers can and have used it to protect their property. And while they have no right to make a dime off it you have no right to acquire that property without their permission.
Which brings me back to my original question: what are you going to do when an overzealous WAMmer posts a torrent of a WAM producer’s material? Are you going to remove it, tell the user to remove it, do…anything? Or are you going to hide behind internet culture’s entitled feeling of “give it all to me free” and let the producer take matters into his/her own hands, which could include anything from coming after you and your site to shutting their whole operation down?
Gness7 you are a new poster here and i feel you have your right to your opinion as everyone does but i feel that you are over-stepping the mark with what you are saying here it is tellygunge’s website what he does is up to him if you don’t like it then get lost
I see no problem with what he said? Can’t see any ‘overstepping of the mark.’
I feel that whilst TG is technically right in that sharing some TV clip wouldn’t necessarily lead to say Leon’s clip being shared, realistically it’s rather likely that that would happen.
Right, because my not bothering to post here a ton means I have no idea what I’m talking about, even though I’m closer to an actual producer than anyone in this thread (save for Leon, who has already posted his objection).
I’ll get lost. I just want to extend my best wishes for this new project. I sincerely hope it takes off and reaches its logical conclusion and turns into a place to trade clips from Leon, Rich, Noise, Jessie, etc. I would be really really interested in seeing what happens then.
I have also bought producers clips before and they have there own websites where you can buy there clips andi feel it would be difficult to torrent them personally and i don’t think anyone would anyway as this is a legit site.
Gness i will be the bigger man here and apologise what i said was wrong, if you know someone close to the industry fair enough and you obviously know what your talking about but i feel it will work both ways there are good things and bad things about torrents hope you see this and accept my apology
Thanks for the support MCPridz, but I agree with SilverG that gness didn’t overstep the line. Just robust debate
. Glad to see you’ve made up.
Dunno if it’d work on an individual clip level, but for libraries (e.g all the GYOB we have, all NHP, all MoM etc) it could be viable if there were enough seeders.
That would be great
That’s an excellent idea.
Don’t know about anyone else here, but the only torrents I come on here to read about are torrents of gunge falling on attractive females. I really don’t care for these anti-copyright tracts.
We now have our answer as to why there’s never been a WAM torrent site…
I don’t think there’s need to give any further justification or defence. I’ll just say this to the WAM producers out there: You’ve barely had a mention on this site in two years. Do you really think you’re suddenly going to become the centre of attention just because we’re trying out a new way of sharing clips?
I’m beginning to catalogue my collection into torrents, following HenryLee’s idea of bundling together collections. They will appear here:
http://tellygunge.wordpress.com/archives/bitgungings/
Good to see people getting involved so far. In due course I will write a guide on how to download torrents and make your own.
In the meantime, please get downloading. And please, please be good neighbours and seed.
Does anybody else remember the program Direct Connect? It was a program would allow users to connect and share the contents of their hard drives with each other. You would connect to a server, and then click on a user to browse what they had to offer. There was a shortlived WAM server, and there was tons of material, many times from paysites. The problem was people would share their generic WAM folder, and never really paid attention to what was in it. The only problem was that you were just browsing through a file structure and you had no idea what you were getting. Would you spend 6 hours downloading a clip that you already had because it was named differently? Would you get a video clip that was corrupt? Or was it something totally different than what you expected? It was like a grab bag sometimes, which is why I think it went away.
A lot of new posters have come out of the word work on this topic i would like to add i was talking about torrents in work today and they can definetly have there benefits and there downsides but i would recomend one if i wish that i use and that is UTorrent
Tellygunge, you said both “YouTube’s ‘unlisted’ option has been a godsend, but even this is no help against automated copyright filtering, which is becoming more and more common.”
Then argued with a producer:
“So Leon, you’re saying that the rest of the WAM community should desist from using efficient technological means to distribute any file – any file at all, not necessarily one that you had anything to do with – to protect your ‘right’ to make a living using whichever business model you choose?”
You just bitched that can’t share copyright material, then put forward a solution to get round not being able to share copyright material, then bitched at the guy that asked you not to share copyright material.
No one cares if you share non copyright material, and trying to call producers selfish for wanting to own what they own and choose how it is distributed is pure ignorance. Copyright needs reform, sure, but the basic right of owning what I make and choosing how I sell it is basic and mine.
Also, deliberately linking to torrents on a WordPress hosted account I’m pretty sure is against their terms and conditions:
“Responsibility of Contributors.If you operate a blog, comment on a blog, post material to the Website, post links on the Website, or otherwise make (or allow any third party to make) material available by means of the Website (any such material, “Content”), You are entirely responsible for the content of, and any harm resulting from, that Content. That is the case regardless of whether the Content in question constitutes text, graphics, an audio file, or computer software. By making Content available, you represent and warrant that:
the downloading, copying and use of the Content will not infringe the proprietary rights, including but not limited to the copyright, patent, trademark or trade secret rights, of any third party;
the downloading, copying and use of the Content will not infringe the proprietary rights, including but not limited to the copyright, patent, trademark or trade secret rights, of any third party;”
So, if I was you I would quite seriously consider removing the links to the The copyright owned TV material you already have.
Been away for a bit and see I have come back to a huge debate. Think this is a great idea and when I get my reliable internet connection set up will join in.
Just to reassure any WAM producers (and in particular Leon as I have a few of your vids) I would not put any up, or download any that were offered. You produce a clip and I respect that. However a scene in the middle of a program is not the same and it is a great idea to find a common way to share them, lets see how this goes.
I’m going to go ahead and add my largely insignificant voice (since I don’t really contribute anything to this site other than the occasional comment) to the debate and express the serious reservations I have about this idea.
I think it opens the site up to all kinds of potential problems and is likely to cause much more trouble than it’s worth. If you’re intending to torrent material from ‘mainstream sources’ like television shows and films (whilst openly stating that intention), there is a danger that some legal representative for a major film studio or broadcaster will take exception to what you’re doing and come down on the site like a proverbial ton of bricks. Alternatively, if the work of wam producers does appear on here despite the assurances offered that it won’t, you risk damaging their business and drawing the ire of the wider wam community.
The site seemed to be ticking along rather nicely with a good selection of stories, some interesting discussion topics and regular alerts about wam scene in the mainstream media, it seems foolhardy to me to open the Pandora’s box of potential copyright infringement issues when there’s almost nothing to gain from doing so.
That’s my two-penny worth anyhow. It is ultimately Tellygunge’s prerogative to run the site as he sees fit but he ought to beware that, should he purposefully infringe on the copyrights of others in doing so, it is their prerogative to take action.